Robert Ringer

Taxation: The Christian Thing to Do?

By Robert Ringer - Tuesday, September 27, 2011

As BHO and his far-left comrades in arms continue to beat the drums of class warfare, they leap from one outrageous argument to another.  The latest is that “government taxation is Christian.”  Really?  Does the bible actually say that government has the right to take money from individuals by force and hand it to others?  Hmm … I must have missed that.

Other than Obama’s newest spiritual advisor, true-believing communist Reverend Jim Wallis (who replaced Obama’s previous spiritual advisor of twenty years, that paragon of patriotism, Jeremiah Wright), you don’t hear a whole lot of people seriously trying to make such a claim.  Something about a giggle test, I think.

On its face, it is, of course, absurd.  But one must be careful how one argues against it.  For example, Mike Huckabee’s recently expressed view is that if people would just tithe more, government wouldn’t need to tax.  Given that it was the Huckster who said it, I wasn’t shocked, but I still feel obliged to address such an idiotic statement, given that it was made on national TV.

Does Huckabee or anyone else truly believe that if people would tithe more, the government would stop taxing them?  Please, get real.  Government is a leviathan beast with an insatiable appetite for cash.  How much you give to charity is not just irrelevant to government, its avaricious appetite is so great that it now wants to take things one step further and eliminate charitable deductions to make sure you give less to charity.

The notion that government theft and Christianity go hand in hand is an insult to the intelligence of every citizen, particularly Christian citizens.  The government does, indeed, redistribute some wealth to those “in need,” but even then it is acting unconstitutionally.

That, however, is not the worst part of the problem.  A large percentage of the booty it collects (it’s impossible to know exactly what percentage that is) ends up in the hands of outfits such as ACORN (and now its spin-offs), NPR, and Solyndra, foreign dictators, and, above all, government workers and bureaucrats who, for the most part, perform services for which there is no demand in the free market.

Of course, to pump up support for their agenda, politicians have to lie to the public by saying things like “millionaires pay taxes at a lower rate than the middle class and the poor.”  To borrow from the creator of Romneycare, nice try.  Sorry, but there’s nothing to debate on that point, because it is a readily accessible fact that people in higher income brackets actually pay a higher tax rate than those at the low end of the income spectrum.

In an article in Psychology Today, Dr. Peter Corning says that the only reason the wealthy pay a disproportionate share of the income taxes (38 percent of the total, roughly twice what they paid just thirty years ago) is because the incomes at the top of the scale have more than doubled, while the median income of the bottom half has significantly declined.

But that’s the whole point.  “The rich” now make a lot more and they now pay a lot more in taxes!  Am I missing something?

More important, however, is that Corning’s point is based on a false premise — one that a majority of Americans have blindly accepted — that it’s somehow wrong or bad or immoral for some people to earn much more income or accumulate much greater wealth than others.  This false premise is what gives tax-addicted politicians the confidence to call for evermore more taxes on “the rich.”

They have succeeded in getting the public to buy into the false premise that government not only is efficient in spending your money, but, more important, that it has the moral authority to take it from you in the first place.  It most definitely does not.

As the seventeen-year-old California kid, Tyler Hinsley, put it at one of the Republican debates, “How much [of every dollar I earn] do you think I deserve to keep?”  Rich or poor, the money belongs to the person who earns it, not the government!

In more than two hundred years, I don’t know of anyone who has summed America’s number-one problem more succinctly than Thomas Paine when he said, “Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”

That’s right, America’s biggest problem is not that too many people make too much money or pay too little in taxes, but, rather, that government has become intolerable to those who desire to be free.  Is there a candidate, or potential candidate, out there who is willing to state this loud and clear?  Please be sure to let me know if you find one.

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Copyright © 2019 Robert Ringer
ROBERT RINGER is a New York Times #1 bestselling author and host of the highly acclaimed Liberty Education Interview Series, which features interviews with top political, economic, and social leaders. He has appeared on Fox News, Fox Business, The Tonight Show, Today, The Dennis Miller Show, Good Morning America, The Lars Larson Show, ABC Nightline, and The Charlie Rose Show, and has been the subject of feature articles in such major publications as Time, People, The Wall Street Journal, Fortune, Barron's, and The New York Times.

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46 Responses to “Taxation: The Christian Thing to Do?”

  1. This is ridiculous. Not only is there absolutely nothing wrong with taxation, it's absolutely necessary for the government and the whole nation to function.It isn't "taking money away from people to give to others",it's something which would make it impossible for us t do countless things which we take for granted.

    And the notion that the more the government reduces taxes the greater the prosperity is, is hogwash.

    Without taxes, we would not be able to have the police and the fire department protect us, be able to have clean air and fresh water, have safe food and water, safe products,

    be able to go to public libraries, and countless other things we all take for granted.

    • Serfee says:

      Apart from being a form of theft, taxation takes funds out of a relatively efficient private sector and puts those funds into an extremely inefficient and wasteful public sector.

      Simple economics will show you that doing that creates a drain on the economy, not an economic boost as the politicians would have you believe.

      Therefor, in order to maximize economic growth taxation must be kept to the lowest rate possiblee.

    • topeka says:


      Even if true, which it isn't. (i.e. that taxation is a virtue)

      That only covers a small fraction of local, municipal and state government expenditures.

      A post is wholly inadequate to address the issue, but methinks you have a conflict of interest: You either delight in the misery of your neighbors or feast at their table. Your false concern belays a hypocrite.

      If you had any real compassion, you would be desperate to stop the current wealth transfers from working private sector citizens to the international-banking-jet-set, a payoff to lazy unionistas and gov't idiots, and a few crumbs to welfare queens.

    • reunion says:

      robert…setting aside orwell, euphemisms, etc, and setting aside a significant chunk of the founding method actors "what's my motivation" (ostensibly taxes decoupled from "representation"), seems you have not delved much into alternatives to taxation, or that you have considered/realized that ethics/morality do not, or should not, second fiddle to ends justifies means pragmatism/utilitarianism – at least not for humans (fine for ants, tho…). to debate an issue effectively you must be conversant with first principles (hint: those are ones that do not contradict),as well as opponents arguments/ideas. for good reads on these things lewrockwell dot com and mises dot org are rich, searchable natural resources (as in potential energy awaiting admixture of your labor for profitably kinetic returns).

  2. Kevin Moss says:

    Robert, a useful post, thank-you.

    Clearly, there is nothing specifically 'Christian' about taxation. It is significant that the New Testament description of taxation, usually presents negative aspects of the phenomenon (eg. the behaviour of tax-collectors). Although, it is worth commenting that Jesus encourages us to 'give to Caesar what is Caesar's', which presumably would include tax revenues.

    Huckabee's apparent conflation of 'taxation' on the one hand with 'tithing' on the other seems disingenuous. The one is the involuntary removal of personal wealth, with force if needs be. The other is the entirely voluntary giving, out of love for God.

    Of course, what Obama is seeking to do here is sweeten the pill, sugar-coating the toxic reality with a terminology that would fool the nominally Christian majority within the US population. If he tried that approach in the resolutely secular environment of Western Europe, the strategy would certainly rebound on him.

    • The passage stating, give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, is often quoted in regard to taxation, however it also says in the verse, give unto God what is God’s. Can you tell me what is God’s? Everything, correct? (Genesis 1:1) So we must give everything by God’s will, however that aside, taking the first part literally, what is the governments? What do they produce? If they create it, I would be more then happy to give it back. One then by this verse could avoid all taxes by not using the governments’s services, including their currency. The IRS thinks that you must list on your tax return any barter and trading you do, however that is against what God says, the government does own everything within it jurisdiction, only what it produces, everything else, is purely God’s.

  3. Bryan says:

    Well said, Robert. I agree that the idiocy inside the beltway has become intolerable, at least in my opinion. Here's an interesting thought: what would happen in our nation if the liberal media simply vanished from the face of the earth?

  4. Taiji218 says:

    Here is one of the best essays I've found from a Christian point of view about what taxation should be (and how government should be organized):…

    A great book that dispels much of the pseudo-Christian wolf-in-sheep's-clothes socialist arguments about economics is David Chilton's book "Productive Christians in An Age of Guilt Manipulators." If you go over to Gary North's Free Books website you can download the book as a .pdf file for free (or you can still buy a hard copy off of

  5. Robby Bonfire says:

    Beware of little known political candidates taking a Robert Ringer "Leapfrog Theory" quantum leap over the crowd, all the way to the top. One of them, the current one, in fact, tried that strategem and made to the top of the pile, rendering the reality that "Anyone can become president of the United States" our system's greatest failing, rather than the "strength" it was at one time thought to be.

  6. Reality Seeker says:

    Regarding church, state, taxes, war and the somnolent fools who so blindly support the means to humanity's destruction, speaking of such things, I occasionally read something so farsighted and brilliantly written that it becomes a moral obligation to pass it on: Dr. Paul Craig Roberts' latest analysis on the road to amerikan hegemony is an essay that's profoundly written.…

  7. Scott says:

    Here, here RS. Well said and another winowing of the wheat and the chaff!

    Christians originally referred to themselves as "Followers of the Way of [Truth]. "Christian" is a derogatory label put on by the Romans. Of all people, "Christians," should be offended and angry whenever any two-bit politician tries to leverage any aspect of their worldview for political gain – how crass!

    I don't even want any representative of the state saying "God bless you…God bless America, etc. I don't want these scoundrels invoking any god, much less the God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob, to somehow stir the people to action or acquiescense.

    I appreciate that the Rev. Huckabee has found the biggest church ever to lead (thanks to FOX News), and is making more money than ever in his "ministry," however I don't have to like it, nor support it.

    If you are in politics, or you are a buearaucrat – keep your religion to yourself, thank you

    • Reality Seeker says:

      "I appreciate that the Rev. Huckabee has found the biggest church ever to lead (thanks to FOX News)."

      And I appreciate it when somebody has wits enough to point out the above fact.

      • Reality Seeker says:

        "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." …..Samuel Adams

        Yes, a tireless and persistent minority,right or wrong,is indeed all it takes.

        So, is it really a surprise that the Black Messiah has resorted to a new moral low in waging the war against individual freedom? If history teaches us anything, then this latest attack should not be a surprise attack, but, rather, an anticipated onslaught.

        History is merely repeating itself; and BHO is just doing what sheeple herders do; and what they have always done.

        Both the church and the state collectivize their herds of cattle and their flocks of sheep. Few individuals are even dimly aware of the basic facts of life relative to religion and politics. The compliantly ignorant masses relegate themselves to play the role of mentally recumbent sheep which flock together and bow down before the political, financial, military and ecclesiastical powers that are all too happy to shepherd them right into the slaughter-house.

        You're blessed, says the holy man.

        You're an obedient, law-abiding citizen of the state, says the politician.

        You're a good soldier, says the commander.

        You're approved!, says the bankster.

        You're a good, little sheep…….baa bah bahh.

        • Reality Seeker says:

          God's little children/sheep are beguiled into building up inside of themselves the core convictions and emotional infrastructure which allows them to love being a loyal,sheep-like slave to their brand of Christ and/or a citizen slave of the State. Being slaves and having a master over Mr. & Mrs. ignoramus becomes a self-imposed moral obligation to them that's worth killing and/or dying for.

          Homo-ignoramus pays his taxes and his tithes. Homoigno-man worships a god, and after hearing the often misinterpreted holy words echo off the pews, then he sends his little homoigno-child off to war. This is the history of the world.

          Over the centuries both church and state have competed against each other for the hearts, minds and souls and money, blood and muscle of the mentally somnolent masses. This relationship between slave and master, sheeple and shepherd, continues unabated, unresisted and mostly unquestioned down to this very moment. BHO is currently completing for a larger share of the church's money, that's what all this is about.

          I repeat: Is it really any surprise that the church and state are twisting scripture and natural law for the purpose of expedient gain? It should be no surprise whatsoever that the mentally somnolent masses are easily manipulated into just about anything by waiving either a bible or flag.

  8. Deanlaw says:

    I can't understand how anyone can say that taxation is not “taking money away from some people to give to others.” The government assistance programs such as welfare, food stamps, etc. do exactly that. In my own case, I am trying to pay for one of my children's college education. That is made much more difficult by taxes that reduce the amount that I can keep of my earnings, only to provide it in the form of financial aid to another student whom the government deems more worthy.

    I understand and agree that my family does not qualify for financial aid. But to take money that I earned from the funds needed by me to pay my own child's tuition and costs and give it to another who likely doesn't contribute any tax revenue, is unethical, immoral and certainly un-Christian.

  9. Tom says:

    @Robert Berger

    >> Without taxes, we would not be able to have the police and the fire department protect us, be able to have clean air and fresh water, have safe food and water, safe products…

    The regulating bodies of food, air and water are some of the most corrupt institutions.

    Police… In many cases where police intervention is required, the disturbance was initiated by the police. Maybe we need a smaller and less corrupt police force.

    The way I see it, most of the collected tax money goes to paying outrageous wages and benefits to under- and non-performing government flunkies who would die of starvation in the free market. Deep down they knew they had nothing to offer to the free market, so they joined the world's greatest protection racket.

  10. Thomas says:

    Re that last paragraph: I would suggest that Ron Paul states these things consistently, and has throughout his career.

  11. Paul Cross says:

    This is REAL ironic! I thought there was "separation of Church and State"! If that's how they want to define things and if taxation is "Christian", then taxation is unconstitutional. They surely like to twist anything in anyway so long as it seems to serve their purpose at the time! What's amazing is how many sheepeople swallow any of the drivel.

  12. major says:

    There is a grain of truth in what Hucakbee stated, It is my belief that if the majority of this "christian" nation had been paying our tithes for the last 50 years, for the right reasons, which would mean to me that we were "living" our faith, then we would not even be in this mess. We didn't get here overnight. Even the most radical leftist of 40 years ago would not accept, or believe, some of the entitlements we have come up with.

    • reunion says:

      this is not a "christian nation", and never has been. the reference is demagoguery.

      • topeka says:

        No reunion, you are the demagogue spreading misinformation. And fact less as well.

        America is most certainly Christian in all of its most substantive institutions: from the belief in the individual, the belief in the soul, the law, medicine and hospitals, science and learning both as a philosophy and as a mass phenomenon, freedom of movement without passports, freedom to work, freedom to keep property, and our limited political structure denying Divine authority to the politicians, and our conceptualization of the community as an aggregate of free persons rather than a plantation of slaves ruled from on-high by noblese oblige, just lists a few of the basic Christian tenets.

        And the Jewish roots of the culture can be found in the Bible, available at your local bookstore or public library. (Irony there is not lost considering the history of libraries …)

        Now, I know why you believe. You have been told to believe, so you do. But when you stop believing nonsense and fairy stories, and try to use Reason instead, you may make some progress.

        No evidence exists to show secular or non-Christian ideological cultural foundations support the current edifice of Western Civilization. Rather more the opposite: e.g. French secular philosophers alone have been responsible for more death and destruction than all of wars remotely connected to Christianity and all witch hunts combined. e.g. Freedom is a Christian invention. e.g. Science is a Christian invention. e.g. Hospitals (for the masses) are a Christian application. e.g. Rule of Law (pre-Christian) applied to all (Jewish), to limit atrocities (Jewish), and equally to all (Christian) for the good of the community (Christian), and this includes limited taxation.

        The only non-Christian culture to reject slavery was the Chinese: After thousands of years of bloody revolts, ending with the emancipation of men. Christian nations initiated a crusade against slavery, and have been blamed for it ever since.

        One could go on like this all day, for weeks, or months, but my lunch hour is nearly over.

        • reunion says:

          topeka….rr closed with a tom paine quote. he was a deist. you imply you respect reason (and that I don‘t), which suggests you’d like paine’s book, “the age of reason”, but much of your writing is patently unreasonable, counterfactual, contradictory, so it seems doubtful that you would. jefferson was a deist, too (who removed all the supernatural hoo-haw from the bible, put the rendering into a book he titled “the life and morals of jesus of nazareth”, aka “the jefferson bible”). as was franklin. and washington. and allen (who, like paine, wrote a book on the subject). and who knows how many much as you may wish to claim that deism is just another sect under the christian revealed religion big-top, it isn’t.

          the norsemen who colonized north america, perhaps as early as the 10th century, were not Christians.

          the native north american populations were not christian.

          the african slaves were not christian, tho it was poetic they should adopt such a religion, being as it was swiped, wholesale, by slaves, from egyptians, phoenicians – who probably swiped it from some other mob…).

          the chinese “laborers” were not christian.

          it is also incorrect to ascribe anything (let alone what’s in the list you’ve posted, several items of which have long gone by the way, btw…) to any disembodied collectives, such as christianity. individuals, christian creeded perhaps, other creeds as well, certainly, or not creed-bound at all, move things along, and the credit is theirs. glomming onto that by vicarious affiliation speaks of an empty bottle longing for an identity to be poured into it, and, unfortunately, there are vast warehouses, packed to the rafters, with such bottles.

          but all of this is an aside, compared to your biggest error.

          go ahead and assume that everything you’ve written is true. what you conclude, but what will never be true, is that the christian pedigree, scaffolding, foundation for everything good in the world indentures me for simply being born into what you claim is their/your world. i don’t owe christians, jews, israelis, muslims…taoists, buddhists…or any of the other tribalists…anything. except: to not trespass against them. which is also the sum total of what is owed to me. interactions beyond that are either consensual or contractual – or they are trespass.

          you know “why I believe“, eh? because I’ve been “told”? lol…that is funny. you, a believer, look at me and see a believer. have you heard of psychological projection? how about, “when your only tool is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail”? or, “beware the man of one book”?

          birds do it (see the duck experiments), bees do it, even educated fleas, do it…let’s do it…let’s emulate (model, imprint). we all START out in emulation mode. belief training wheels – santa, tooth fairy, easter bunny – then progressively more “real” things – deities, secular & supernatural supplant the “childish” versions and we all coast along on two wheels containing a varying handful of spokes. and for most, unfortunately, that will be their conveyance thru the entirety of their lives. a relative few work, study, think and eventually put the schwinn away.

          you advised me, so here‘s my advice to you: fill your own bottle, carry your own water, and put away your bicycle. here’s a theme song for you hum while you work at maturing:

          http://www. /watch?v=i7iQbBbMAFE&ob=av2e

          • Reality Seeker says:


            Besides your exceptional argument, I clearly see a larger macro-change occurring:

            For example, the level of debate has reached a new level in this forum. I see this in other forums and as a worldwide trend, an historical Gutenberg-moment is in the making.

            I think that this trend will grow from a "bushfire in the minds of men" to a wildfire of revolutionary change. The status quo is about to be mortally challenged in a head to head in your face exchange: first in an intellectual showdown, then in a literal one.

            It is going to be an interesting time to be alive.

            Goodnight all, great comments.

  13. reunion says:

    norcal….'tragedy of the commons' is solved by doing away with commons. private property all the way (including oceans and the bounty living in them). the absolute penchant, otoh, is to convert everything to commons – including each and every human…steinbeck did 'of mice and men', 'the matrix', the 'borg', etc are variations on 'of termites and men'…….again, this is socialism, democracy, all of it. rachael carson was a liar; bring on the ddt……..(dendrites digging truth? lol…)

  14. Scott says:

    "The Christian thing to do?" Resist the evil one! "The power to tax is the power to destroy" said Chief Justice John Marshall.

    Resist, resist, resist. That's the Christian thing to do, and for that matter, the American thing to do. The Beast has no power if you don't feed it!

  15. Heather426 says:

    Ron Paul has not only said these things, but he has the voting record to prove it.

    The only politician in DC who walks his talk. Every single issue, every single time.

  16. Reality Seeker says:

    Reply to fellow slave #763,

    "The cost of unconstitutional wars and entitlements trivializes the above expenditures."

    Yes, it does.

    #763, did you know that the financial mess that we slaves are in can now be tabulated as future obligations amounting to monetary sum of more than a quadrillion, not just trillions of dollars?

    They—The New World Oligarchy—have got us buried down deep, real deep.

    Today, as you read this, The ECB, IMF and EFSF Banksters are busy adding to the financial tab with their latest bailout of the PIIGS. The EU version of T.A.R.P. is upon us.

  17. reunion says:

    the censor has landed in ringerville…twice my main post on today's essay has been deleted…….

    • Reality Seeker says:


      The increased volume of comments has probably tired the eyes and mind and lessened the forbearance of the moderator regarding the word limit.

      • reunion says:

        is 4406 words too much? lol….drive it like you stole it – all the way to the chopshop……

      • Reality Seeker says:

        Disregard the tired censor and cast your bread upon the vast waters of the Internet.

        Mankind has arrived at the point in history which is a Gutenberg-printing-press moment. The Gutenberg printing press changed the world. Likewise, the world is changing again.

        The mainstream media no longer has total control, and no one forum has a lock on free, profound speech. Other forums allow for a more detailed debate.

  18. reunion says:

    < Government is a leviathan beast with an insatiable appetite for cash.  How much you give to charity is not just irrelevant to government, its avaricious appetite is so great that it now wants to take things one step further and eliminate charitable deductions to make sure you give less to charity.

    It is always tempting to describe something in terms of its effects, but this is also often misleading.

    Have been watching episodes of “boardwalk empire” the past couple evenings (very good on the true nature of politics, btw, with emphasis on the repubs…), which has as its setting prohibition era atlantic city.

    Booze was variously characterized, including along lines of ‘beast with an insatiable appetite’, before volstead act (which, it is suggested in this hbo series, the repubs had much spin-to-do with, as with “emancipation” – fits, but I don’t know details…).

    Guns get this kind of reflexive description, too, in many quarters.

    But booze and guns – and gov – are inanimate objects. They are tools. They are wielded. Being outraged by the effects of how a tool is used is like making war on a tactic (terrorism). It is logically, factually incorrect, indefensible. The wall is inanimate – so stop beating your head against it…even a hammerhead is not literally so and this is not the way to use heads to bring down walls……

    • reunion says:

      < A large percentage of the booty it collects (it’s impossible to know exactly what percentage that is) ends up in the hands of outfits such as ACORN (and now its spin-offs), NPR, and Solyndra, foreign dictators, and, above all, government workers and bureaucrats who, for the most part, perform services for which there is no demand in the free market.

      Booty does not “end up”. gov is the weapon wielded by the robbers. If you are mugged at gunpoint, your valuables don’t “end up” in the mugger’s pocket – the mugger used the gov in his hand to take your valuables.

      • reunion says:

        < “The rich” now make a lot more and they now pay a lot more in taxes!  Am I missing something?

        Possibly the collusion between big business, big banking and gov that in large part has facilitated the stratospheric compensation packages (and, in perfect emulation of gov generally, that are so often completely divorced from performance)?

        • reunion says:

          < that it’s somehow wrong or bad or immoral for some people to make much more income or accumulate much greater wealth than others.

          Yes, on its face, this is the equality card, egalitarianism. Never been true and never will be – but the envy that drives it has always been true and (probably) always will be. As always, in all questions, tho, the important one is “how”. the how described in my previous paragraph is wrong/bad/immoral (because it is theft).

          • reunion says:

            < They have succeeded in getting the public to buy into the false premise that government not only is efficient in spending your money, but, more important, that it has the moral authority to take it from you in the first place.  It most definitely does not.

            Yes. But how did they succeed? One of the significant tactics generally, including here, in this pandering to envy, is the consistent insistence that changing scale changes reality. The mugger with a gov in his hand is a crook, but the social security ponzi scam is ‘the general welfare’ or ‘social justice’ or, or, or….a killer is clarified only by degree (1st degree, manslaughter), but kill thousands and millions, call it war, and it is statesmanship or leadership or, or, or (but not for the losers of the war – they are ‘war criminals’…). besides overt self interest, the philosophy of utilitarianism underlies all this orwellian garbage – and utilitarianism dispenses with morality and ethics in favor of simple math: the greatest good for the greatest number…beginning to sound familiar? This dishonest mental sleight of hand is the dirt that socialism grows in (from each according to ability, to each according to need) – but also democracy, and every other form of imposed social organization (even if only in the pr…). Utilitarianism is an insect code of life, not fit for humans.

  19. reunion says:

    final chop (there is apparently a thread limit, too):

    Changing scale refers only to size; all the other particulars remain exactly the same….being part of a team, a party, a state, a country, or a lynch mob, only SEEMS (to the willfully ignorant participants) to change the particulars, and that’s mostly because of the illusion of anonymity, of safety/strength in numbers – which are all dodges, deceits, character defects……

    Tom paine was no dope, and he surely was not characterizing gov as Frankenstein’s monster. Gov is a tool, and like tolkien’s ring, is always used maliciously. Anarchy is maximally distributed, decentralized gov. it removes anonymity from the malicious and returns them to accountability. Of course, this is the last thing insect-people want. And the tribal drums continue to sound their base, bass notes…….

  20. topeka says:


    Re: Tragedy of the Commons

    No, private property cannot remedy the the problem of abuse of the commons.

    While true that public property will be abused, nothing in that fact proves private property will not be abused.

    To assume private property works, one has to presume a host of intangible, insubstantial, cultural achievements and the institutions founded thereon to allow the system to function as you think it will. Which you most certainly do not, given your posts on this article.

    For private property to function, several features have to exist, for example:

    1. If an owner abuses another owners property, the latter must have some means of measuring the abuse, and enforcing his rights against the former. And, the damages must be proportional to the abuse, and tempered under the circumstances. If not, under a secular or non-J-C culture, either party could be held liable for damages far worse the "tragedy of the commons."

    2. The private property solution assumes the abuse has been vetted by the society and found justifiable. Otherwise, if these rights have no relation to something tangible, nothing prevents an owner from making false accusations against his neighbors.

    3. Note in points 1 and 2, we are assuming overlapping and dimensionally variable property rights which are balanced against other property rights. i.e. water, land, air, and subsurface owners having equitable balance of power.

    4. Oh, equity… another Christian invention, from the Ecclesiastical courts.

    5. Whew, given a magical world where all these rules work out without distortion, corruption, or double-dealing using a government wholly un-touched by the compassion or reason of 2000 years of Christianity…

    We have to postulate the private owner considers the long-term future to have more value than the near term future. What? They care about the unborn? Give me a break, Net Present Value of the unborn, and especially other people's unborn is how we have a fiscal crisis now. The Left already kill 'em if they can make a profit, and we are supposed to believe the owners will be careful despite the NPV?

    You should go read some slave cases. What is really touching is when the owners are forced by bankruptcy to sell their slave's children. It's touching because it shows even monsters have a conscience. What is horrifying are the stories of selling the slave's wives and children just to raise some cash.

    If private owners cannot be concerned about a slave's children, how can they be trusted with air or water quality or biological diversity?

  21. Attila Vaas says:

    Is there a candidate, or potential candidate, out there who is willing to state this loud and clear? Please be sure to let me know if you find one.

    RON PAUL!!

    He's our only hope to save America and the real Constitution!!

  22. Robby Bonfire says:

    Re: "If you are in politics keep your religion to yourself."

    Thank you, for expressing that position, coming at this time when the Internal Rotgut Service is telling preachers what they can and cannot say in the pulpit. So much for "separation of church and state," which by the way I am against, given the corrupt, immoral slime pit this and other nations have fallen into in the aftermath of the "secular" side taking over the world.

    Nice job, you Jesus haters. Really nice job. There is not one child over eight years of age in the world who hasn't been slime-bagged by your vulgar, disgusting immoral, unethical, corrupt, debased agenda of filth, anti-morality, anti-church, anti-family, pro-immoral marriage, anti-economic prosperity and destitution for all, except of course for George Soros and his hot tub/bath house bagmen reaping the bounty for their moral infection of the universe.

    Nice job. I guess jumping on the preachers of the holy gospel was about all you had "Leftist" to accomplish on your fast track to the viper-pit Apocalypse of the human race.

  23. Robby Bonfire says:

    For those (idiots) who think taxation is "necessary," maybe if you studied history a bit, instead of watching American Idol, 2.5 men, and Jerry Springer reruns with the rest of the zombies you would be conversant with the fact that this country, the greatest monolithic power in the history of the world, was built WITHOUT a personal income tax.

    This was possible because, 1. Government lived within its means, it didn't prostitute itself and bankrupt the country in exchange for election day votes; 2. Every dollar printed and issued was backed by an ounce of gold bullion on deposit at Fort Knox; and 3. The primary source of U.S. Government funding, prior to the 1913 Federal Reserve creation sell-out, was tariffs levied on imports and a favorable (and profitable) balance of trade.

    Then came Leftist sleazeball politicicans starting with Wilson who was the dupe for the international bankers who got their little Federal Reserve toy; and the accountants and lawyers who got the windfall of the personal income tax preparation scam; plus Roosevelt, of course, with his expropriation of the people's gold via threat of criminal prosecution against those who did not comply with his blantant, manufactured "crisis" heist; and all the rest of the Leftist charlatan and swindler presidents, put us in the bind we are in today, as a nation.

    But they keep getting voted into ever more absolutist power and control over our money and our daily life activities by a populace which has become as immoral, unethical, and corrupt as those at the top who stroke them with promises of goodies, but who mostly hit them up with more blind-side tax levies.

    Only in a nation with the dumbest and the most expedient, lazy, good for nothing population, could this happen – this opting for The Kremlin-Lite Dictatorship we now have over our Philadelphia Freedom heritage.

  24. Jason says:

    Render unto Ceaser what is Ceasers.

  25. Space Cowboy 22 says:

    Topeka you obviously have a complete misconception as to the meaning of the phrase "noblese oblige". I believe it means if you have great knowledge than you are obliged to perpetuate the spread of that knowledge.

    In other words if you are truly a enlightened one then you have an obligation to enlighten the others amongst the masses. Knowledge is power but it will only become more powerful when it is shared.

  26. Jewel says:

    There are definitely quite a lot of details like that to take into consideration. That may be a great point to carry up. I offer the ideas above as basic inspiration but clearly there are questions like the one you deliver up where an important factor will probably be working in sincere good faith. I don?t know if finest practices have emerged round issues like that, however I am sure that your job is clearly identified as a good game. Both boys and girls really feel the impression of only a moment’s pleasure, for the rest of their lives.

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